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Re: [acs-wg] OGSA roadmap input
by pete＠ziu.net 16 May '05

16 May '05

Sorry, this missed the group email list... Pete Ziu 571.235.0208 (c) mailto:pete@ziu.net (h) mailto:5712350208@tmomail.net (sms) >Folks, > > With respect to CDDLM and WSDM being out of scope and implementation > specific, are you saying that grid services such as ACS do not need to be > managed or scaled by some spec so that a quality of service entity knows > how to managed them? What should happen if ACS is overloaded and needs to > automatically be deployed to other machine resources? You can't really > make the case that CDDLM and WSDM are not relevant to *any* fundamental > grid component. Perhaps I am missing the intent of the table of referenced > specifications that Mike filled out. > > I think that there is a fear of making one spec components of another, > since it might lead to too much dependency binding and lack of decoupling. > However, not enough equation reduction will lead to a potentially bloated > code base and lack of management and deployment automation, two functions > which are frequently sacrificed or an interoperability stumbling block to > integrators. Also, one winds up with many software components using up > hardware resources accomplishing the same tasks via different > implementations. > > But to stay on track, the question once again that I feel important to > dissect is: are there fundamental or "core" services that other services > are to build upon so that the whole can be managed? If so, do they go in > the table. And if deployment is considered a function of management > (install, start, stop, remove), deployment functions will need to exist > outside of the realm of managed components within the grid, else there are > circular dependencies. > > Pete Ziu > 571.235.0208 (c) > mailto:pete@ziu.net (h) > mailto:5712350208@tmomail.net (sms) > > > > > > > > > > > > To acs-wg(a)ggf.org > cc > bcc > Subject Re: [acs-wg] OGSA roadmap input > Sachiko Wada <sachiko(a)ascade.co.jp> > Sent by: owner-acs-wg(a)ggf.org > 05/16/2005 07:13 AM ZE9 > <font size=-1></font> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Mike, > > Thank you for writing the document. > > I think the WS-RF/WS-N (or OGSA Basic Profile?) should be added to the > list. > > I assume that ACS (ARI) uses WS-ResourceProperty to describe an archive as > a resource, WS-Naming to represent a reference to an archive, and WS- > BaseFault to define fault messages. I mean, these specs are used in the > service definition (wsdl); i.e. the ACS spec depends on these specs. > I am not sure whether WS-ResourceLifetime and WS-Notification are mandatory > or not. Perhaps WS-Notification is not mandatory. But these kinds of > detailed discussion may not be required in the roadmap document. > > I have no idea about any other standards at this moment. Will we refer to > the CDDLM in our spec? How about security issues? > > In order to deploy or/and manage ACS service, the ACS service may implement > the CDDLM or/and WSDM interface, but I believe this is an implementation > matter and out of the ACS spec's scope. > > > Other comments: > > - The title of the chapter is "OGSA normative interface schedule" and the > word "interface" reminds me of Web Service portType. But It seems that the > word interface is used in the broader sense because JSDL is also included > in this chapter. If so, I think it should better be described explicitly > that we are going to discuss about the archive format for the grid > application as well. > > - I assume that the Business Grid is also a expected user. (It needs > Keisuke's confirmation, though.) > > Sachiko > > At Sat, 14 May 2005 12:18:37 -0400, > Michael Behrens wrote: > > > > The list of specifications needs to be expanded perhaps. I am a little > > confused too on what kind of standards need to be listed. I presume it > > should be those which the specification depends, not the > > implementation. Suggestions? > > > > I changed the "Excepted Users" section to say: > > > > The ACS specification, to be developed by the ACS-WG, is expected to be > > use initially by the NAREGI project in Japan. Generally, any job > > execution management implementations can begin using the specification > > by recognizing the ACS namespace for application content references and > > invoking the services to obtain the application and data. > > > > I'd like to get this to Jem before Monday's OGSA telecon. > > > > Ziu, Peter wrote: > > > > >Mike, thanks for taking the initiative to get things started. Looks > good, but I am unfamiliar with the dates and status of WS-Naming and > Solution Installation. I presume you have referenced those dates to check > schedule fit, or is this the purpose of the roadmap folks to help sort out? > > > > > >What about specifications that any grid service need to implement? Do > we mention these in the "referenced specifications"? Is ACS considered a > grid managed service? There are many potential circular dependency issues > to work out if so; i.e., if I am a service within the grid container, then > I must reference and utilize certain base specification implementations > that all grid managed services must so that I can be started, stopped, > restarted, installed, removed, scaled and de-scaled. If ACS is a service > dependency to any of the just mentioned functions then we are awash in > chicken/egg issues (what comes first, the chicken or the egg), and will we > need to sort these out in order to produce the "referenced specifications" > table. > > > > > >Pete > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: owner-acs-wg(a)ggf.org [mailto:owner-acs-wg@ggf.org]On Behalf Of > > >Michael Behrens > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 9:22 PM > > >To: acs-wg(a)ggf.org > > >Subject: [acs-wg] OGSA roadmap input > > > > > > > > >Team, > > >We need to provide some input to the OGSA roadmap document before next > > >wednesday. (I presumed we would like to be listed in the roadmap) > > >I wrote up a draft and am attaching it for your review and input. > > >This is the template document and I only changed section 4.1. > > > > > >Please check the table of dates that I derived from the charter too. > > >Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Michael Behrens > > R2AD, LLC > > (571) 594-3008 (cell) *new* > > (703) 714-0442 (land) > > > > >

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RE: [acs-wg] OGSA roadmap input
by Ziu, Peter 16 May '05

16 May '05

Mike, thanks for taking the initiative to get things started. Looks good, but I am unfamiliar with the dates and status of WS-Naming and Solution Installation. I presume you have referenced those dates to check schedule fit, or is this the purpose of the roadmap folks to help sort out? What about specifications that any grid service need to implement? Do we mention these in the "referenced specifications"? Is ACS considered a grid managed service? There are many potential circular dependency issues to work out if so; i.e., if I am a service within the grid container, then I must reference and utilize certain base specification implementations that all grid managed services must so that I can be started, stopped, restarted, installed, removed, scaled and de-scaled. If ACS is a service dependency to any of the just mentioned functions then we are awash in chicken/egg issues (what comes first, the chicken or the egg), and will we need to sort these out in order to produce the "referenced specifications" table. Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-acs-wg(a)ggf.org [mailto:owner-acs-wg@ggf.org]On Behalf Of Michael Behrens Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 9:22 PM To: acs-wg(a)ggf.org Subject: [acs-wg] OGSA roadmap input Team, We need to provide some input to the OGSA roadmap document before next wednesday. (I presumed we would like to be listed in the roadmap) I wrote up a draft and am attaching it for your review and input. This is the template document and I only changed section 4.1. Please check the table of dates that I derived from the charter too. Thanks. -- Michael Behrens R2AD, LLC (571) 594-3008 (cell) *new* (703) 714-0442 (land)

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requirements input
by Michael Behrens 14 May '05

14 May '05

Here are some requirements to be considered based on some interactions I've had with CM folks. Would it be appropriate and okay to ask them to present a use-case at the F2F? These might be more pertinent to an ACS implementation as apposed to the specification: Shipping - We do not currently have a software shipping requirement - however perhaps that could be an export/import capability which would facilite the shipping. This would mean we'd need an export porttype. The Business Activity Manager would request one or more archives to be downloaded (if permissions allow). I presume that the ACS would need to keep track of all requests as part of an auditing service invocation (grid logger?). Federation - The replication (perhaps via GridFTP) of archives to support edge caching or mirroring. If a hierachial graph of repositories exists, how would that affect how the application contents are located. Perhaps the naming resolution mechanism be a way to help. (This is sort-of covered by the Transfer section of the current ACS draft (Cooperation between mulitple ACS). -- Michael Behrens R2AD, LLC (571) 594-3008 (cell) *new* (703) 714-0442 (land)

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Forward: Re: [cddlm] Component Model Update
by Sachiko Wada 10 May '05

10 May '05

Hi folks, I got a response from Steve who is an editor of the Deployment API. Some questions still remain unanswered and I am going to ask the questions again on the CDDLM ml. Sachiko

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RE: [acs-wg] Dates for ACS-WG Face-to-Face
by Ziu, Peter 04 May '05

04 May '05

Keisuke, Have we fixed the meeting times to two days, one full day and one half day, correct? Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-acs-wg(a)ggf.org [mailto:owner-acs-wg@ggf.org]On Behalf Of Thomas Studwell Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 2:34 PM To: Keisuke Fukui Cc: acs-wg(a)ggf.org Subject: Re: [acs-wg] Dates for ACS-WG Face-to-Face I am confirming that I will attend the face to face. Due to vacation, I missed the discussions as to the proposed meeting times and this may be key as to how I travel to the mtg (and how I reschedule other mtgs on those dates). Were you planning morning to night on both days?? Thomas W. Studwell Senior Technical Staff Member, Autonomic Computing Architecture IBM Software Group B140/Bldg 500 4205 S Miami Blvd, Durham, NC 27703 (919) 254-7574 Fax: (919) 254-7628 Mobile: (919) 619-1038 studwell(a)us.ibm.com "The optimist sees opportunity in every danger; the pessimist sees danger in every opportunity." Winston Churchill, Sir (1874-1965) Inactive hide details for Keisuke Fukui " src="cid:108433719@02052005-2f2b" width=16>Keisuke Fukui <kfukui(a)labs.fujitsu.com> Keisuke Fukui <kfukui(a)labs.fujitsu.com> Sent by: owner-acs-wg(a)ggf.org 04/26/2005 02:20 AM To acs-wg(a)ggf.org cc Subject Re: [acs-wg] Dates for ACS-WG Face-to-Face Folks, Since there is no issues raised on the schedule, I announce the face-to-face schedule for ACS-WG as below: Date: May 23 and 24 Place: Washington D.C. Topics:Issues and steps to generate WG draft, additional requirements and IUDD standardization. Agenda will be posted before the meeting. Attendance: Open. Below is the list of attendees so far. Pete Ziu, Mike Behrens, Sachiko Wada, Keisuke Fukui Confirming the attendance form Naregi PSE team and Thomas Studwell We are considering to let people join in the meeting over the phone. We will discuss about this in the next call this week. More details will be posted before the meeting. If you have any comments or requests on this, please express yourself on this mailing list and/or join the call this week. The call will be announced in a separate mail. We have a small chance that shifting around the dates depending on other attendees schedule. We are aware that OGSA-WG will have a full week F2F meeting in the same week. -Keisuke Keisuke Fukui wrote: > Folks, > > As you know, we are discussing to have the face-to-face meeting to prepare > to generate the WG draft of the ACS spec. at GGF14 in late June. (See more > details in tele-conference minutes.) > > Since we have two of the three co-chair and Mike on the U.S. East coast, > we are planning to have it there and let others join in it over the phone. > Current candidates for the dates are: > > - May 23rd-24th (First candidate) > - May 30th-31st > > Above are chosen within constraints on our schedule and availability of > meeting facilities. Our first choice would be May 23rd-24th. If you prefer > another dates and/or can provide the facility, please let us know. Since > we have four week advance notice regulations as a GGF WG, today will be > the last date to announce the meeting on earlier dates. > > Please respond asap if anybody has a problem with the date. > > -Keisuke >

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IUDD -> SDD
by Michael Behrens 03 May '05

03 May '05

FYI: New OASIS TC: Solution Deployment Descriptor (SDD), previously described as IUDDs under W3C http://xml.coverpages.org/OASIS-SDD-CFP.html http://xml.coverpages.org/ni2005-04-30-a.html I found this initially in this good consolidated list of resources which was very helpful as it covers everything from ACS to CDDLM: http://xml.coverpages.org/computingResourceManagement.html -- Michael Behrens R2AD, LLC (571) 594-3008 (cell) *new* (703) 714-0442 (land)

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Dates for ACS-WG Face-to-Face
by Keisuke Fukui 02 May '05

02 May '05

Folks, As you know, we are discussing to have the face-to-face meeting to prepare to generate the WG draft of the ACS spec. at GGF14 in late June. (See more details in tele-conference minutes.) Since we have two of the three co-chair and Mike on the U.S. East coast, we are planning to have it there and let others join in it over the phone. Current candidates for the dates are: - May 23rd-24th (First candidate) - May 30th-31st Above are chosen within constraints on our schedule and availability of meeting facilities. Our first choice would be May 23rd-24th. If you prefer another dates and/or can provide the facility, please let us know. Since we have four week advance notice regulations as a GGF WG, today will be the last date to announce the meeting on earlier dates. Please respond asap if anybody has a problem with the date. -Keisuke

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ACS F2F planning/coordination info
by pete＠ziu.net 02 May '05

02 May '05

Attached is a doc Mike and I put together outlining the proposed meeting dates and locations, and contains some helpful travel info about the meeting locations, airports, hotels, etc. Pete

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Teleconf material from NAREGI
by Motohiro YAMADA 27 Apr '05

27 Apr '05

Hi all, Attached is a material for the teleconf tomorrow. Best Regards, -- Motohiro Yamada

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Forward: Re: [cddlm] Component Model Update
by Sachiko Wada 27 Apr '05

27 Apr '05

Hi team, As I said at the last meeting, I read the CDDLM documents (mainly the Component Model Specification which was updated recently) and summarized my understandings in the attached file. Your comments and questions are welcomed. Note that the memo contains my interpretation. I asked the CDDLM team to point out any misunderstandings. Regards, Sachiko Wada

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